Transcript: Dale Templar on Human Planet, Bear Grylls, and the Grit to Build a World-Class Production Company
And We're Rolling with Stephanie Hunt
STEPH: Dale, I'm thrilled. I'm so excited to have you on the show. I'm a huge, huge fan of Human Planet. It's my favourite documentary series, hands down. I love that it celebrates human survival in all the different habitats. And, okay, you're going to think I'm quite strange, but I've got the book here as well, which you co-wrote. I've taken that book to put on my desk in different newsrooms that I've worked in around the world. Now that I've been working from home in my tiny office for two years, I've also got it very close to my screen. It's just a lovely reminder of all the great adventures out there. I'm very excited to chat with you today.
DALE: Well, it's great to be here, and it's so lovely that Human Planet touched you so much. The series was definitely a very important part of my life because it was a breakthrough documentary.
At the time, I was working for the BBC Natural History Unit. There'd been these other big landmark shows before Human Planet — Frozen Planet, Planet Earth, Blue Planet — but of course they all focused on the other animals on the planet rather than the human animal.
The original inspiration came from Bob Geldof, who was very aware that around the world, languages and customs were disappearing because of the homogenisation of the planet. You get off a plane in any capital city, go to the main centre, and you'll see the same McDonald's, the same brands, the same shops. He was very aware that before these customs, languages, tribal groups disappeared forever, he wanted to record them. And at the same time, very luckily, both the BBC and Discovery thought it would be a really good idea to make a series focusing on humans — particularly humans who live with the natural world, in the places we had filmed before in traditional wildlife documentaries, but with the lens focusing on people.
I was asked to do it. I was really very lucky — very much the right place at the right time. While I'd been at the Natural History Unit, I had always done documentaries that involved people and animals — either presenters, or people working to protect animals or working in different environments with wildlife. Because of that, I got lucky and was given the job of series producer. At that stage I'd been 20 years in television, and Human Planet was a total passion project for me.
It took four years to make. We filmed in 75 locations around the world. It was brilliant because so often the other big series almost pretended there were no humans in the picture. The fact of the matter is, you can't ignore humanity. And if you take us on 10 years to where we are now — we're all hugely aware of what's happening to the planet, that there are too many people and what we're doing to it — I think in a way it was a seminal piece of television. It's a record of people, places and things, some of which will have gone even now. Some of the people we filmed, some of the practices we filmed, won't be happening anymore. And it's only ten years on. We couldn't film those sequences now.
In 2012, my husband — who is also a producer — and I spent the year in Africa. We spent a lot of time with the Suri tribe on the border of Ethiopia and South Sudan, who feature in the Human Planet series and the book. If we were to go back now, ten years on, it'd be very, very different.
It's difficult because there is a very interesting moral and ethical dilemma here. At one level, you don't want to stop people from moving on — no society stays stagnant and static. But the speed at which we're moving now with technology. You don't want to stop people from becoming educated. You don't necessarily want to stop people from having mobile phones. Or do you? I don't know. I'm not the one to judge or make those decisions.
What I do know is that what we tried to do with Human Planet ultimately is celebrate human cultural differences and also show how much we're all the same. In the context of where we are today — a war in Ukraine, people still killing each other, huge issues in the UK and Australia around immigration, racism still rampant whatever we may like to think — I think what Human Planet does is build human understanding. And that is so important. Because unless human beings realise that we're all humans, whatever our colour, wherever we're from, whatever our different ways of living may be — until we start understanding that, we are going to carry on having these awful atrocities around the world.
People say to me: you didn't bring up any of the problems in the series. And I say: no, because it wasn't a current affairs series. We weren't trying to talk about issues. What we were trying to do is make people watch the show and go — wow, aren't human beings incredible? Aren't we amazing? Aren't we adaptable? Look at how fantastic we are when we collaborate and cooperate. I am a really positive person and I believe that when humans work for good, my God, look at how brilliant we are.
STEPH: Human Planet received eight BAFTA nominations, winning two for cinematography and editing, plus an Emmy in the US. It's spectacular. Were there moments whilst filming where you were taking a second to look around and think — holy smokes, how did I get here?
DALE: I had spent most of my career working on location. I've travelled, I'm so lucky, to over 70 or 80 countries around the world. But during Human Planet, the BBC said to me: you are not allowed to go on location all the time. It was such a big show to manage. We were also working with BBC Worldwide, creating books and all the marketing around the series. So I actually only went on a few of the locations. I had the frustration of sitting in the UK, going through all the stories, working on the editorial, working with all the teams, and often had to send them off and wait for them to come back with this remarkable footage.
I've got to be honest — I wish I had been the one who filmed and directed all those shows. But if it had been one person and 75 stories, I'd still be making Human Planet today.
STEPH: Exactly! I know that feeling. I've done the same thing.
DALE: Yes. And it was absolutely fine, because I think one of the reasons I got the job is that I had worked in every single one of those environments before — the Arctic, the mountains, the rivers, the jungles. Every single environment when you're filming for documentary comes with a real set of issues and considerations.
But yes, I do sit back now and always pinch myself. Human Planet will never leave me. It just never will. I remember when I started the show, I said to my husband: this is going to be when we get a BAFTA. And it was. You just know.
And you've got to remember the privilege, because you have a big budget. So often in television these days, broadcasters want the world but don't have the budgets to match. With Human Planet I had the budget — massive thanks to the BBC, Discovery and BBC Worldwide who put the funding in. When you've got that kind of money and fantastic teams, you should be able to make a fantastic award-winning series. And we did. Don't get me wrong — a big budget doesn't guarantee anything, but at least you're starting off in the right place.
After the show, I was really honoured and surprised to personally be awarded what's called the Cherry Keaton Medal and Award by the Royal Geographical Society for cinematography. I got that — which was a total surprise — and the medal was presented to me by Michael Palin, who is my absolute hero. And then I got to do lecture tours for the Royal Geographical Society about the series, including in the big lecture theatre in London where Charles Darwin had talked about his theories of evolution and where David Attenborough has done so many lectures. I went round the country, and ever since then I do talks about Human Planet. I now travel the world, work on cruise ships doing talks. I've been to Australia. Human Planet is this wonderful thing — it was worth all the heartache, all the pain, all the battles I had making the show. It's a series I'm truly proud of.
STEPH: I remember when you were promoting Human Planet in Australia and I was working at Channel 7 Sunrise — this is ten years ago. I was producing a segment with you and had a quick chat, and you said that breakfast TV producing is excellent groundwork for being a filmmaker. I've never forgotten that. Is it the bad hours?
DALE: Oh, it's very simple. It's exactly where I started. My first job at the BBC — well, I did work for a little while for a production company working for Channel 4, but when I got into the BBC, my first job was on Breakfast News. Exactly the same as what you were doing, Steph. Producing and directing. And you're making small films.
There's a real lack of understanding, because people go: oh, you're only making a three-minute film or a four-minute film. But those are the absolute hardest things to make, because you have to structure a story narrative in a really small space of time. And if you can do that, then you can grow from there and start making half-hour films that are really well structured, and then move on to your hours. I'm literally about to start doing a feature doc now.
It's such good grounding because these days so many people come into television and say: I've been on a course, I know how to film and edit. But what they don't know how to do is tell stories. The art of journalism and storytelling is something you have to learn — some people have it naturally within them, but even still. That's the thing I can't give people. You can give people technical training. You can teach them generally about how a story arc should be. But until you've actually done it, until you've really practiced making films and understand the art of narrative, you can't be a good documentary or programme maker.
In a news or current affairs environment, you're making shorter, fast-turnaround films and you just get lots of practice really quickly. You have a deadline and your programme gets broadcast. Whereas something like Human Planet, which took four years — most feature films are made in less time than that — that's a very difficult place to cut your teeth. You certainly wouldn't be able to go into a show like that as a producer-director without many years of experience.
STEPH: I've never forgotten those wise words, thank you.
STEPH: You also produced and directed many famous TV presenters, including Bear Grylls. What was it like working with him?
DALE: I finished Human Planet and thought: right, I've been at the BBC for 22 years. Long enough — time to leave and start my own independent production company. But before I did that, I was very aware I had mainly worked for the BBC, and there are so many other commercial broadcasters out there. So I did some work for some of the big independent production companies in London. Because I'd done lots of out-there work — I was an expert filming in remote and foreign locations — I was lucky enough to be offered a job working with Bear.
I did three programmes with Bear for Channel 4 and for ITV. And it was just great — I had a wonderful time. The big one was a massive multi-camera production in Costa Rica working with celebrities. It was a bit like I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here, but much more active and energetic. It was called Mission Survive with Bear Grylls. We sent everyone on this incredible journey across the jungles of Costa Rica — celebrities doing abseiling, going across ravines. Great fun.
Bear is so good to work with because he's such a professional. When you set up the programmes, you have to think like Bear — you work with fixers to create these fabulous journeys knowing what Bear can do, and then he comes in and he does it. He's normally a one-take wonder. He has his words, and the very rare retakes are usually because something went wrong with a camera, not because of Bear. I very much enjoyed working with him and the team.
STEPH: Did you ever want to be on the other side of the camera? Did you ever get frustrated being a producer, or were you always happy to be the creative brain?
DALE: I think that's the point — you've hit the nail on the head. Originally I came from a family of actors. That's what I was going to do — I was trained to be a performer. However, once I started directing, you realise that as the producer-director you are the puppet master. You are the person with the creative vision for the whole thing. As an actor or presenter, you're a very important part of that — but as a producer-director, you are the one person involved from the concept to the final product, the constant force throughout that whole process.
Don't get me wrong — I did think about presenting, and I did present a couple of things when I was on Breakfast. Oh my goodness, I was terrible. Absolutely terrible. I'd probably be fine now — I'm less self-conscious because I've done a few things in front of camera — but would I want the job of a presenter? No. I love presenters. I love working with presenters and I appreciate their skills and talents enormously. But I prefer the job I do, and I think it's the job I'm best suited to.
I always say I'm a jack of all trades and a master of none. And then people go: yeah, but you're a master of being a producer. And I go: yes, I am. But I don't know the cameras as well as a camera operator. What I love about television is the team element — the idea of bringing together a group of very talented people to make something that is actually very difficult to make. People think you just wake up one morning and make a TV show, and it's not like that at all. You have to get a commission from a broadcaster, and you are making that show for that broadcaster. They are your client and you work to what they want.
If there are any young people listening who are wanting to be documentary programme makers — one of the reality checks is: when you're younger you go, oh, I want to make a documentary about the fairies in my garden. Well, yes, you can, but nobody's going to pay for that and nobody's going to broadcast it. You have to get a broadcaster. If not, who are you making these things for? It's a lot more complicated and involved than people realise.
STEPH: It's very impressive that you have your own production company. What's the secret to getting that funding? Is it having a big name attached to a project?
DALE: I started One Tribe TV in 2011 after I left the BBC. To begin with, I did a lot of freelance work to build up relationships with other broadcasters and the commissioners — because it's the commissioners you have to pitch ideas to, to their briefs and channel requirements. You have to build those relationships.
What I found really interesting about starting an independent production company is I thought: wow, I've been a pretty successful producer, I've just come away from a BAFTA-winning show. Of course everybody will want to take programmes from me and from One Tribe TV. Oh my God, not the case at all. They were going: well, how do we know you can run a production company? We know you can work for the BBC and do it. But how do we know One Tribe TV can do it? And part of you feels like saying: wait a minute, I was producing the shows for the BBC. But you are starting from ground zero. And it's incredibly difficult.
While it's very nice of you to say my production company is hugely successful, it's a small production company — and it's small because we're truly independent. So many of the big production companies are now owned by broadcasters or big financiers. We are a true indie. I run it with my husband Owen, who is also from the BBC. And I would think every other day we sit there going: why are we doing this? This is such hard work. But we do it because we love it. We have a fantastic team of young people, and we try very hard to keep staff on continually rather than just bringing people in and out for specific projects. We have a very loyal team.
STEPH: This podcast is really trying to help women who feel nervous speaking in front of an audience, or who have a crisis of confidence. You do a lot of public speaking. Any tips or advice?
DALE: Seriously, one bit of advice I would have for everybody — if you're going to give a talk, do anything around the broadcast medium, or even just give a presentation to a group of people — is prep. Prep is really important, and there's a very good reason why we rehearse. I never, ever, ever do anything that I'm going to speak — especially if it's scripted — unless I read it out loud, rehearse it and prep it. And if you're showing visuals, make sure you've rehearsed those visuals. If you're working with a PowerPoint or a video presentation, always rehearse it and make sure the technology is working properly.
I've worked in lots of very big theatres and auditoriums, and every time there'll be a stage manager saying: don't worry, it's all fine, we've done this a million times before. And I go: yeah, I don't care if you've done it a million times before. I want to check that this is working, the mics are working, the audiovisual is working, my laptop is linking up properly to your system. Always insist on a rehearsal if you're able. If you're in a more casual situation — presenting on Zoom or presenting to a meeting — just rehearse what you're going to say.
Confidence comes with doing it. It is difficult. Some people at the end of the day hate public speaking, and if you hate doing it you probably shouldn't do it. But if you have to — make sure you prep it. And if you're using the spoken word, speak it. Don't just write it. You write for speech in a very different way than you write for reading.
Try and relax beforehand. Try to be in a calm place. Maybe do some exercises and stretching. Warm your voice up. Make sure you know what you're doing. Think about your audience. Think about who you're presenting to. Imagine there is just one person you are talking to.
However, if you're talking to a very big audience, you do need to project. You need to think about pacing and smiling and personality. And take your time. Because one of the biggest issues with nervous people is they rush — they want to get everything out as quickly as possible because they don't really want to be doing this. Take your time. When you're on stage giving a speech, a second's pause can feel like a lifetime, but it isn't. You're actually allowing your audience to take in what you're saying.
STEPH: I love your point about women being very good at juggling plates and therefore very good producers. And you run a company from a big family background — I am too. If you're from a big family, you're used to different personalities and wrangling people. But how do you switch off? Producing is a lot, especially in your head.
DALE: Yeah, I'm rubbish at switching off. My husband Owen switches off by going into the kitchen at night — he loves to cook and he's really good at switching off. One of my many faults is that I'm not good enough at switching off, and Owen would absolutely say this.
For me, switching off is about going outdoors. I love to be outdoors — I go running, cycling, kayaking, walking my dog. However, the problem is I've often had some of my best ideas when I'm running. So I don't totally switch off, if I'm honest.
It's a very interesting time for One Tribe. We've got a big project we're working on at the moment called In the Footsteps of Marco Polo — a travelogue across China, which is totally top secret but I'll share it with you. It's with Stanley Johnson, who is Boris Johnson's father. He's in his 80s and he started this journey when he was a student — he followed Marco Polo's route, from Italy and Venice all the way to China. Marco Polo famously crossed China and was the first person from the West to ever write about it. But Stanley only got as far as the Chinese border because he totally messed up his Chinese visa and had to turn back. So the idea now, 60 years on, is we are finishing the journey he originally made on motorcycle through Afghanistan and the Himalayas — a crazy, crazy journey.
We've just finished a big natural history series called Wonders of the Celtic Deep — a four-part series that went out on the BBC very recently. All underwater photography, which is extremely demanding. We weren't working on the beautiful Great Barrier Reef in Australia — lovely, warm, a great place to work. We were filming off the coast of Wales and Ireland in freezing cold water with really hard visibility. But we have the most amazing series — whales, dolphins, absolutely incredible what we actually have on our own doorstep. I'm very, very proud of that.
Then we've got another natural history show coming up with Channel 4 and hopefully Netflix, which we're very close to starting. We have another travelogue show with celebrities called Around the World in 80 Dates. And then we have a history series we're working on — I think for Sky — which is, as a working title, called Back in Time for Sex, which is about the history of sex. So there you go. Nobody can say we don't have a broad church of programmes we're working on!
STEPH: That's so impressive. It's so exciting and you're so inspiring. You've got the dream gig. And it really is yours — all on you and your husband and your team.
DALE: Well, Steph, thank you. But as I said earlier on, it's totally teamwork. I'm the figurehead of this company, but without my editors and producers and researchers and camera ops and the rest of it, there would be no One Tribe TV. That's why it's called One Tribe — because we are One Tribe. And the name came from Human Planet.
STEPH: Well, Dale Templar, thank you so much for your time and for reflecting back on your incredible adventures. You're genuinely inspiring.
DALE: Well, you're very inspiring — you've got two young children, you've got a job and you do a podcast. That is brilliant. So it's all going back to you. Thank you. And I'll see you when I next come to Australia — it's a done deal, I promise you. I cannot wait to come back. I come about once or twice a year, and I was due to come for a wedding but COVID happened and I couldn't. I cannot wait to see all my friends in Australia. I actually have one of my Australian friends who worked with me at the BBC, lives in Sydney, and is staying with me now — so it's lovely to see people from Down Under again.
STEPH: You're a token Aussie, I think.
DALE: I know! Whenever I'm in Australia, after a few days I start picking up the accent. Australians probably think I'm being ridiculous, but I start talking with an Australian accent. I'm a token Aussie for sure.
STEPH: You've got it. We'll claim you.
And We're Rolling is produced by Habari Productions and Stephanie Hunt Media. You'll find all our show notes, links and extra words of wisdom on our website at stephaniehuntmedia.com and on our social accounts. If you like this podcast, please feel free to share it with anyone you think will enjoy it. And if you can, follow, rate and review. Until next time, thanks for listening.
