Transcript: Jodie Wilson on Less Stuff, More Life, and Brave Choices for a Life Less Distracted
And We're Rolling with Stephanie Hunt
STEPH: Jodie, I'm just going to take three deep breaths here. I've just come in as a hot mess. "Be where you are" — words of wisdom that you write about in your book, which lives just nicely on my bedside stand. Such a beautiful book.
Let's start with your big life change, which involved selling most of your belongings, packing up your family — four kids, a family of six — to travel in a caravan around Australia. Can you set the scene of what your life was like before you made that decision?
JODIE: So my eldest was nine and my youngest was 11 weeks old. My partner was working in the film industry and commuting to Sydney quite regularly from the New South Wales Central Coast. We were renting a house in the suburbs that I really didn't like. I would drive the two oldest kids to school, drive the three-year-old to preschool, come back home. The house was full of all the stuff of family life. I was trying to work as a freelance writer.
And I just remember standing in the kitchen one night and going: if I don't get off this path, we're just going to keep going, and this doesn't feel right. It went against everything I believed, because I didn't believe in spending all my days rushing around and never being able to keep up, never finding my ground, never finding that quiet space. I had four children, but I just knew in my heart it wasn't intuitively right for me as a woman and a mother, and for us as a family.
And so when my eldest son was doing a school performance — in a big auditorium, and this is how I opened the book — he was doing a class performance based on Alison Lester's picture book Are We There Yet?, which is the true story of her family who campervanned around half of Australia for about six months. An amazing picture book — if you've got children, I highly recommend it.
Che, my eldest, was on the stage, and I had Marigold, my youngest, in a sling on my chest. And it was like there was a very clear timeline in front of me. I thought: it really didn't feel like that long ago that it was Che on my chest. How has it been almost 10 years? There's a beautiful quote by Gretchen Rubin — "the days are long, but the years are short" — and it just really resounded with me in that moment.
He was doing this play, and my partner Daniel turned to me and said, "We could do that. We could do that road trip around Australia." And it was like my intuition got in before my consciousness could, because I just said yes. He looked at me really puzzled and shocked, because I was someone who had always liked to have a plan, liked to know what was coming next, hated surprises, and would get quite fearful about any kind of massive life decision.
But at that time in my life, my fear of complacency grew bigger than my fear of change. We'd saved for seven years. We had a hundred thousand dollars. We were going to buy a house — but house prices were soaring and I was totally uninspired by what we were seeing. I just thought: we've got to do this.
So I tucked all the kids into bed that night and Daniel started looking at caravans on Gumtree. We'd never caravanned or camped before in our life. Not one weekend a month — this was completely new for us. He said, "Are we really going to do this?" I said, "Yes, we really are."
Eight months after that night, we actually drove out of our suburban street towing the caravan. And on every single one of those eight months of days, it just would have been so much easier not to do it. Packing up four children while still working, selling cars, trying to buy a caravan and a new car, dealing with a three-bedroom house full of the stuff of family life. Hard, hard work. But I'm really glad I did it.
STEPH: You write about feelings of frustration and complacency. That you were unmotivated, uninspired, and frankly quite angry, quite pissed off. I can relate to that — overwhelmed and exhausted, but overwhelmed and underwhelmed at the same time.
JODIE: Yeah. And agitated.
STEPH: Cranky.
JODIE: Really agitated. And the way we were living wasn't sustainable. We talk about sustainability in regards to the earth, but we don't really talk about it in regards to our human selves. We're not robots — we naturally ebb and flow, and we need down times in order to be productive on our flow times. I was not living sustainably at all. I was breastfeeding and co-sleeping and running kids to and from school and just trying to do all the things. I can see in retrospect that I was not honouring the season I was in.
That's a really interesting mindset to have. Now, we live in Tasmania — skip ahead a few years — and my partner and I get up at 5:30 every morning and take our dog, our fifth child, for a walk along the beach. There were so many years where I thought I would love to walk the beach at dawn, but I could not see how that was ever possible for me. I didn't even have the clarity to think: well, maybe in five years' time I'll be able to do that.
What I recognised in those eight months of packing up our life was: A — I knew like the sky is blue that if we didn't do it, I would totally regret it. I could see myself as an 80-year-old woman looking back and thinking I really should have gone ahead with that trip. And B — I knew we were in a golden pocket of time. Our eldest was almost 10, and I knew that within a few years his social life and his ability to be in a classroom with his peers was going to trump any road trip with his family. If we didn't go then, we never would — we'd have teenagers who wouldn't want to leave high school.
Those were the two really driving forces. And it's interesting — people used to say, "What are you most looking forward to?" And I hadn't even taken myself there in my head, because I just had to make every task really small. That's such a good lesson for me as a naturally anxious person who gets overwhelmed easily. Making tasks really small. As the subtitle of the book says: small steps and brave choices for a life less distracted.
STEPH: It was a huge financial gamble. So you hit the road — four kids, six of you. What was it like?
JODIE: I just remember a massive exhale on the morning we first woke up in the van. The night before had been utter chaos. It was dusk when we drove out — we'd handed the rental keys into the real estate agent, put them in his letterbox, and literally closed the door on that rental and drove away. The house was scheduled to be knocked down, so it felt like a big sign pushing us along.
Then the baby cried all the way. It was a 45-minute drive — we'd decided to ease into van life gently. Drive 45 minutes to the other side of the Central Coast, go to a caravan park with great kids' facilities, get a powered site with an ensuite attached. But when we arrived, it was dark. Two children were asleep and Marigold was still breastfeeding. I was standing there with my phone light on, breastfeeding her, attempting to guide Daniel as he reversed the van into the site. Hilariously chaotic.
When the van was finally parked and Marigold was asleep on my chest, we carried the two middle kids into the van and popped them in bed. Then — unlike those perfectly organised YouTube van tours — ours was literally just stuffed. I located a saucepan and a family-sized tin of baked beans, heated them up for Daniel and me and our eldest, and we rolled into bed. We woke up the next morning and it just felt like: oh my gosh, we did it. We'd gotten over the biggest hurdle.
We spent a week in that caravan park organising the van and getting used to van life. Glorious, though not without concerns. I was really scared about towing — it was a big van, 24 foot. Daniel had sat us down to watch YouTube videos of people overcorrecting and their vans fishtailing. Those images stayed with me. But that never happened.
I feel like it was just the start of a whole new life for us. Because it actually was. We ended up spending two and a half years on the road, and we knew that because we'd lived so well with so little, we could never go back to a life that cost us so much just to live. The Central Coast got so expensive. And we felt a really strong sense of belonging in Tasmania, which was interesting because I'm actually English — my mother is from New Zealand, my father from England — and I'd spent my whole life on the Central Coast without ever feeling a real affinity with it. Here in Tasmania, I just feel like I belong. It's a really comforting feeling.
We live rurally, on the northwest coast, in a tiny little town. We could afford to buy here. We've bought a gorgeous 1950s home, and my partner has been the primary stay-at-home parent for the last few years while I've written two books. All those frugal lessons we learnt on the road have helped us live a life where we can afford to do that.
STEPH: How have the kids gone with the transition?
JODIE: The two oldest were really ready to go back to school, and we had to honour that. They'd done enough online learning and really craved the classroom social experience. And all of them were looking forward to a bit more grounding — not always having to think about where we were travelling next or where we were staying. Because regardless of how or where you live, there's the work of life — and that's no different in a caravan. There's still responsibilities.
Some weeks we'd just stay put in a little town and catch up on washing and enjoy doing all the normal daily things, because they were grounding. And it was those experiences in little towns where we might not hop in the car for four or five days because we could walk everywhere — that's what really inspired us to settle in a small town. We loved the idea of not always having to drive places. Now we can walk to the beach, walk to school, walk to the grocery store, the library, the post office. It's heaven.
STEPH: When I was four or five, and my little brother Tom was eight weeks old, my mum and dad did something similar — packed everything up, left the small town of Gunnedah with a truck and a caravan and travelled around Australia. They always talk about the freedom, the space, the ability to just stop and get out of the race. I think I need that. This is calling me big time.
JODIE: Look, it's not for everyone. When I was writing the book I was very aware that 98% of readers were not going to sell all their belongings and pack up to live on the road. And I knew I wasn't going to keep living in a caravan either. So what were the lessons I learned that are ultimately universal? Relevant for people in high-rises in the most urban environments, and those who live rurally or in the suburbs.
There are five of them.
One: time in nature. Barefoot on the ground, looking up at the moon, swimming in the ocean, going hiking. I'd spent all my motherhood encouraging my kids to go outside, play in the dirt, not come in till dinnertime — but I never gave myself that same advice. And I discovered that more than any amount of yoga, more than any deep breathing or relaxation practice, it was nature that was the biggest salve for my anxiety. It grounded me in a way I never anticipated. I still make sure I'm out in nature every single day.
Two: we don't need a lot to live well. When you live in a caravan, everything you carry has to be considered for its purpose, its size and its weight. If something broke on the road, we'd pop into the local op shop to pick up a new one. We'd always tried to buy secondhand, but now there's no questioning it — it's just what we do. And it allows you to ultimately work less, because you don't need to buy the things you don't need. I stopped getting my hair done, stopped getting my nails done. Hundreds of dollars a month I was no longer spending. It made me realise that weighing up work against time is a really good way of figuring out your priorities. Do I want to work three hours to pay to get my nails done? I don't think I do.
Three: children don't need to be doing a lot of extracurricular activities. For two and a half years, my children didn't do any swimming lessons, any ballet, anything. We'd consciously left all those obligations behind. And it made me a much happier person when I didn't have to be here or there and adhere to this and that. If you can open your diary at the start of each week and not feel overwhelmed and full of dread about what's to come, that will change your wellbeing. And don't be afraid to cancel things. If there's a social obligation you can't handle that week, just cancel it. Move it. People are more flexible now — they have to be.
Four: ask yourself what's really sustainable for you. I've been sharing five ways to practice simplicity on Instagram every Sunday since about March, because the one piece of feedback from the book — which is written in prose, not a list of instructions — was that people wanted more practical tips. So they're there every week, gentle suggestions. Things like: go to bed early without your phone and set yourself up for a settled sleep. Load the washing machine the night before so it's done by 7am. Choose the easy option — and some weeks that means buying takeaway instead of cooking dinner, and that's absolutely fine.
Some weeks I aim to use up every last scrap of vegetables in my fridge so I'm not wasting food. The next week I look at the fridge and go: I cannot cook tonight, we're buying takeaway. That's honouring where you are and being kind to yourself.
Five: simplicity is ultimately a mindset, not an aesthetic. It's an anchor to ground you and a compass to guide you. Not a way of living so much as a way of thinking.
STEPH: They're really good tips. I feel like you're just hugging me through the computer. I can do that — I can fill the washing machine the night before. I can go to bed early!
JODIE: Yes! And it sets you up for a more settled sleep, which ultimately helps your whole lifestyle.
STEPH: My final question — being less distracted, less on our phones. Does that come into the ethos?
JODIE: There's a whole chapter on distraction in the book. Distraction can be really healthy when it's nature distracting us with things that inspire us and create perspective. But then there's the distraction of our phones. I spend a lot of time on screens as a freelance writer, and it's hard to explain to my children that this is my work. Ultimately it's about acknowledging that the screens are there and that you have control over the habits you create around them. For me, that's not taking my phone to bed at night. Going to bed early because I'm up early.
And it's really being aware of when you're just scrolling as an avoidant tactic. The doom scroll. But also being aware of how productive you can be when your phone isn't there. I often just picture what my children see when they look up at me — do they want to see me on my phone all the time? It's a pretty ugly image.
Just being aware is the biggest first step you can take.
STEPH: From reading your book, which I really recommend everyone buy — the big thing I took out was that change is possible with belief. And it's the tiny moments of joy that prove we don't need all the stuff to live well. Getting out into nature, even in a city. Being aware of what makes you feel content — because contentment doesn't come from online shopping or from living a life attached to plans and obligations. Peppering moments of contentment throughout your day is really important. And rest is essential.
JODIE: Rest is essential for productivity. And in a society that values productivity above almost anything else, we really have to go against the grain and say: we need those winter seasons, those fallow seasons, in order to be really abundant and fruitful in the seasons when we're most productive.
STEPH: Practising Simplicity — a wonderful, wonderful read. It will stay on my bedside table. It's not going anywhere. And I can't wait for the new book too. Are we allowed to talk about that?
JODIE: Yes! The new book is available to pre-order now. It's published end of January next year and I've co-written it with my dear friend Sophie Walker from the Australian Birth Stories podcast. It's the complete Australian guide to pregnancy and birth — the first book of its kind in over 20 years. Writing it felt like a baby and the editing phase felt like labour. We're so proud of it. It's going to really encourage women to get informed, to actively prepare for birth and plan for postpartum. In Australia, one third of women experience birth trauma — physical, psychological or both — so there's a lot of fear around birth, and the Australian maternity system is something you really need to know about. This book will give you a lot of information and facts, but also very kind and gentle advice.
STEPH: I love your work, all of it. I'm here for it. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your words of wisdom.
JODIE: Oh, thanks for having me, Steph.
And We're Rolling is produced by Habari Productions and Stephanie Hunt Media. You can find us on Instagram and Facebook, and chat via the website at stephaniehuntmedia.com. While you're there, feel free to sign up to the newsletter — it's worth it. I hope you're able to find a second or two to practise simplicity this week. Please take care. Thanks for listening.
