Steph Hunt:
Hi everyone, I’m Steph Hunt. Welcome to And We’re Rolling, the podcast.
I’m an international journalist, producer, news boss and mum. The thought of finding our voice — speaking in public or on camera — can be terrifying. I know the feeling.
So join me as I chat with the world’s best female presenters, foreign correspondents, leaders and performers to learn what scares them the most, their secret tips and tricks, and how they find the grit to keep on going.
My guest today is Deborah Rodriguez — hairdresser, humanitarian, and author of the international bestsellers The Kabul Beauty School and The Little Coffee Shop of Kabul, along with its hit sequel.
Deborah spent five years in Afghanistan, where she taught and later directed the country’s first modern beauty academy and training salon.
Like it is for so many, this is a heartbreaking time for Deborah. The Taliban’s swift takeover of Kabul — almost 20 years after they were ousted — has left many of her staff and their families desperate to flee.
We recorded this interview the day before the Taliban took control of the presidential palace.
In this conversation, we cry — but we also laugh — as Deborah speaks from her home in Mexico about how a small-town girl from Michigan ended up living a life she never imagined.
She talks about her writing process, losing and refinding her voice, literally having warlords in her lounge room, and what we can do to help the women and children who remain in Afghanistan.
Deborah Rodriguez, it is an absolute thrill to chat with you.
Your books — The Little Coffee Shop of Kabul and its sequel — are international bestsellers. They’re brilliant. They’re stunning. They’ve provided me with comfort and a sense of exotic escapism when I really needed it.
Thank you so much.
And just for our audience — a bit of backstory.
We were just saying we feel like we know each other.
Deborah Rodriguez:
I know! It’s so funny because years ago, when I was at Channel 7 and you had just released The Kabul Beauty School, your publicist sent a press release to Sunrise.
You read it and thought, Okay, I need to get this author on the show.
And we did it. And I’ve followed you ever since.
Steph Hunt:
Exactly.
And then years later I reached out to you again on Instagram, urgently waiting for another book release.
And then heartbreakingly, Afghanistan was back in crisis.
We were struggling to cover the story because we had no contacts on the ground, so I reached out to you and you were incredibly helpful.
So I really do feel like I’ve known you forever.
How did you come to live in Kabul and eventually direct the first modern beauty academy there?
Deborah Rodriguez:
I’d joined a disaster relief organisation back in Michigan.
I’m a hairdresser, and in August 2001 I did emergency response training in Chicago for people who could leave within 72 hours of a major disaster.
Then 9/11 happened.
I was deployed to Ground Zero, working with firefighters, doing massage therapy and helping support exhausted first responders.
Watching that devastation changed me.
At the same time, I couldn’t stop watching what was happening to women in Afghanistan under the Taliban.
I saw footage of women being executed in stadiums, buried alive, stoned.
And I thought: What can I do?
When the Taliban fell, I joined a medical relief team heading to Afghanistan.
I quickly realised I was completely useless medically.
So I started cutting hair — because that’s what I knew.
That’s when everything clicked.
Journalists started leaving sticky notes on my hotel room door asking for haircuts.
Then I started searching for Afghan salons.
When I found one, I was horrified.
It was tiny. They were doing perms with sticks and rubber bands.
That’s when I knew I had to do something.
Back in Michigan, I literally called the 800 number on the back of a Paul Mitchell bottle and left a voicemail asking for funding to open a beauty school in Afghanistan.
Two days later, John Paul DeJoria called me.
And that was it.
The ball was rolling.
Steph Hunt:
That is extraordinary.
Sometimes the answer is right in front of us.
Your skill — hairdressing — was exactly what was needed.
What did beauty look like in Kabul?
Deborah Rodriguez:
The Afghan women were immaculate.
Their eyebrows? The most beautiful I’ve ever seen.
Under their burqas they were absolutely glamorous.
At the school, styles were formal — bigger hair, more makeup.
Then I opened a salon for foreigners: embassy staff, aid workers, journalists.
And honestly?
I started it because I couldn’t drink one more cup of instant coffee.
That’s how the coffee shop happened.
Pure insanity.
Steph Hunt:
You seem to have this incredible grit.
Do you think that’s what drives you?
Deborah Rodriguez:
I can be relentless.
Once I have a goal, I just go.
I don’t spend much time wondering what if this fails?
I always say: You can’t get yes unless you ask.
What’s the harm?
Steph Hunt:
I love that.
You’ve also gone from journaling privately to becoming an international bestselling author.
How?
Deborah Rodriguez:
I started journaling to keep my salon clients in Michigan updated while I travelled back and forth.
Then it became emotional survival.
I needed to process what I was seeing.
I also didn’t want to forget it.
Later, I realised the coffee shop itself was a book.
There were warlords in my living room.
Spies in the café.
Missionaries. Mercenaries.
Every night felt surreal.
I wanted to tell those stories.
Steph Hunt:
And now, Afghanistan is facing another devastating chapter.
What are you hearing from people on the ground?
Deborah Rodriguez:
Panic.
People feel trapped.
Like they’ve been locked inside a burning house with no way out.
Families are flooding into Kabul with nothing.
Many qualify for refugee visas but physically can’t leave because borders are closed.
The logistics are impossible.
It’s heartbreaking.
Steph Hunt:
What can people do to help?
Deborah Rodriguez:
Support immediate refugee aid.
Food. Water. Shelter.
Later, families stranded in third countries waiting for visas will need financial support for months.
My nonprofit is being restructured to help former Kabul Beauty School staff and their families.
That’s where my focus is.
Steph Hunt:
Finally — this podcast is about grit.
Have there been times you’ve lost your voice?
Deborah Rodriguez:
Absolutely.
When I had to leave Afghanistan in 2007, I lost my voice completely.
I was emotionally destroyed.
Writing The Little Coffee Shop of Kabul helped me find it again.
Then moving to Mexico helped heal me.
Sometimes we have to force ourselves forward, even when everything feels on fire.
For me, it was writing, moving, opening another salon… and getting a cat.
That was my therapy.
Steph Hunt:
Deborah, thank you.
Your resilience is extraordinary and deeply inspiring.
It’s been such a joy.
Deborah Rodriguez:
Thank you.
And I still can’t believe I once drove 14 hours across the Mexican desert in my Mini Cooper just to do your Sunrise interview.
Maybe that’s why Australia made me a bestseller.
Steph Hunt:
I’ll take royalties.
Thank you so much for listening to And We’re Rolling.
Hosted by me, Steph Hunt. Produced by Stephanie Hunt Media and Habari Productions.
You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook.
